Earlier this year I discussed net zero, 1.5, the Paris Agreement and much more with Tom Rivet-Carnac. This was captured in a recording that has now been made available as a podcast via Outrage & Optimism, a project created by Tom, Cristina Figueres, and Paul Dickinson. The discussion was part of the TED-hosted Countdown Dilemmas event about carbon credits and net zero. Tom and I agreed about much, while being able to disagree with some issues such as whether we are going to limit warming to 1.5. One thing I tried to do in our discussion is outline reasons for what I called grounded optimism. With respect to the climate, this is a form of optimism that accepts that things are probably going to get worse, but that does not mean all is lost, that everything is going to collapse. Many thanks Tom for such a fascinating discussion and the TED team for production.